Dilshad: 0:02

Welcome to the Delicious Dignity Podcast. Let's settle in securely and ever so nicely into the brilliance of our own dignity. Hello, lovelies. Today we have a very special guest. It is Gio. Gil and I have been friends for about a decade now. And the reason I have her on the show is because I have watched her have so many cool experiences just because she dared to talk to people. She dared to network. She dared to connect. And I've watched her at events, and she just seems to know absolutely everyone in the room. But in this very non-cheesy, non-aggressive way. This is not someone who is a social butterfly. You wouldn't necessarily call her the popular kid that everyone, maybe in high school, maybe you were, but like it's not loud or obnoxious. And that's what I just loved about just watching her walk through a room. And every now and then she guts on her soapbox the most about how networking can literally change your life and networking can really just open your opportunities up. And thanks to her, it was actually through her network and through her ability to network, I got a job when I almost went bankrupt. Her networking has actually benefited me in so many ways. And the reason why I have Gil on is because I believe in inviting guests on the podcast who are everyday people doing an ordinary thing in an extraordinary way. And I think Gio does networking and connecting with people in an extraordinary way. And you just never know, right? How somebody else's gifts benefit you, how they benefit them. And then as I was thinking about the show, I was thinking about AI and the whole hoopla around AI and its limitations and its benefits. And I'm thinking that human connection and the ability to open up opportunities and learn from other people, this is something that AI just cannot do in the way you're building communities, relationships, and connections, it's just not something AI can do for you. So I think this is a skill that is future-proof in a way. So that's why we have Giel on. So without further ado, Giel, can you please introduce yourself? Welcome to the show.

Jheel: 2:26

Thank you for having me. Not gonna lie, it's a little strange, but hi everyone. I'm part of corporate America today, but also have a lot of things kind of on the side. I love being creative and spending time on things that truly bring me a lot of joy. I dance. I started a small food blog a long time ago, which is actually thanks to Dilshad, and then also started working with a friend of mine on just a fun little fashion blog. So yeah, I'm a lot of things wrapped in one, I guess.

Dilshad: 3:00

Yeah. And you use your networking ability in all these different areas, which we will talk about. It's really so much fun to watch you. Can you define networking in your own words? If you have to define it in one word or sentence or a paragraph, how would you define networking?

Jheel: 3:16

I think the best way I would define it would be genuine connections. I think you can meet people in all aspects of life in different scenarios, but I think the network matters in however you want to define the network. It matters when it's genuine connections. So I think networking for me is making genuine connections.

Dilshad: 3:37

Yeah, and then that's what I want it to be every time. You know, I try to have this sort of connecting mindset, but for me, the reason why I hold back has always been because I just can't find the genuineness in there. And I think a lot of people hold back because they can't find the genuineness, or they meet someone and they just sort of feel like this wall between themselves and the other person. So yeah, I think we'll get into that in a minute, but that has been the reason why I have held back and I just don't feel comfortable when I feel that energy and I've pushed myself to connect. And I've seen you also push yourself to connect, and it has fallen flat, and most of us are scared of that experience, and that's why we don't do it. So I'm wondering what you think of that. Why do you think people hold back? And what do you do about everything I just said when you encounter people?

Jheel: 4:31

Yeah. I mean, look, I've not always been good at this. It's taken me time to get over that hurdle as well. You've known me for a really long time. You know, I'm actually very much of an introvert when it comes to my real personality, but I also learned a long time ago that your network is everything. I don't think it's something you learn overnight. I think it's a skill set that you develop over time. There's a ton of stuff out there that can help you kind of get started. But I think what you have to remember is we're all humans at the end of the day. And I think the second that mindset switch like happened, the switch happened in my head. That's when I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna approach you. You're just another human being. What's the worst that can happen? You've seen it fall flat, and you can't always expect things to go your way with anything in life. So why should this be any different? The only thing that you can do is do what's in your hand, whatever you can control in that situation, and then hope for the best. And if it doesn't go that way, don't dwell on it. Keep going.

Dilshad: 5:35

Yeah, and so how do you shake it off? Let's think of one specific incident, and it's this I just remember it was in a coffee shop, I won't say which one, in Sedona. And this is when you were trying to, and I was like also excited for you. So I was talking to everyone on your behalf too. There were so many people in Sedona, and thinking especially of one person that was especially kind and went out of his way to show you the ins and outs of his restaurant and the restaurant business and what it means to have a restaurant. And that was such an incredible experience. And then we had another experience where we were at a coffee shop in Sedona. All we were doing was asking this lady what her opinion on starting a coffee shop is, what would she say? And it just fell flat. I think from our perspective, it looked like she felt threatened or she felt like we were taking something from her or we'd be better than her. I don't know what the deal was, but she was not open to connection, and that's fine. That's nothing wrong with that. It's her prerogative. But it was very awkward, and it was just like we're just asking you a question, we're just making conversation. There was nothing to it, and it fell flat. I know what happened in that situation. We just both dropped it and we said, whatever, we shook it off. But what do you do in situations like that when that happens?

Jheel: 6:52

Yeah, I remember that very clearly, especially because there were such two drastic contrasts that we saw, right? Of experiences. And I've actually come across similar experiences recently as well, where I tried to have those conversations and people aren't always willing to share, and that's okay. And I'm also human and I do feel it in that moment. I'm like, oh no, what happened? But then I always try and remind myself to take a step back. Sometimes people don't want connections. Like there's really no one answer, right? But I think what's good to kind of keep in your mind is sometimes they don't want that connection. So sometimes people are just going through something that you don't know about. So I always try and give them the benefit of doubt that there are things happening in their lives that I don't know, nor should I know, which might make them react a certain way in those situations. They might not be ready for those conversations. I know I have those days at times. I try and be very mindful on those days, hoping somebody approaches me. But if that happens to me, I just try and say thank you for that conversation. And like you said, we thanked her for the little conversation we were able to have, and you move on to the next thing. There's no point of holding on to those little things in life. There's a lot more to it than just that one conversation or several of those conversations.

Dilshad: 8:16

Yeah, I think so many people are just scared of rejection and they feel it as rejection. It's not really rejection, but they're afraid of rejection and they feel it as rejection that, oh, this person doesn't like me, they don't want to talk to me, there's something wrong with me, there's something wrong with them. Networking sucks, it's so bad, blah, blah, blah. And all these stories and beliefs come into play. And I think when you say that they're just human and they have preferences too, I think that's a good thing for people to realize that sometimes you're not the center of the universe. It's true.

Jheel: 8:51

You're never the center of the universe.

Dilshad: 8:52

You're never the center of the universe. And just knowing that we're all kind of orbiting planets around each other and we're just coming into the orbit. Okay, the gravity is not good here, and so we go into a next planet and go around that orbit. I just I feel like that's one way to think about just being connected to another human being and what may or may not happen and how to take it. But at the same time, when has networking benefited you? What are some it could be in your corporate career, it could be in your business, your creative projects, whatever it is. When what are some fun stories you have? Oh dear, there's so many. Yeah.

Jheel: 9:30

I know, like within the corporate world, especially when we have the big events, those are great opportunities to go meet people. I know I have met several people who now become my mentors or just friends for life and my trusted advisors at work. But I think my most fun story is I'm gonna give a shout out to a really beautiful brand called Surmay because it's also connected to you. So I feel like this is a really fun story to share.

Dilshad: 9:58

Okay, go ahead. I'm excited. I remember this.

Jheel: 10:00

Yeah. So, like, I think about a year ago, I had bought a gift for Dilshad for her birthday. And if you don't know her, she loves her gold-toned jewelry, and so do I. So I found this beautiful nose pen from Surmay, and I was like, hey, I think this is perfect, but I couldn't tell if it was gold or because they make it out of brass. So I reached out to them on Instagram and just to kind of clarify like, hey, uh, can you clarify if the color of the piece is gold or not? And dude, like 10 minutes into it, we're still talking. It should have been like a five-second conversation, like, yes, ma'am, it is, and you're done. 10 minutes into it, I find out that I'm actually speaking to the founder of the company, who's one of the most beautiful people I've met in recent times. And we're still talking, and I think it was like 30 minutes later, I was like, dude, I don't know about you, but this doesn't happen to me. In my head, I knew that this can either blow up in my face or this could turn into something interesting. And I just went with my gut and I was like, hey, do you want to connect on the phone maybe later? See if this turns into anything. Next thing we knew, we were talking on the phone. We till day to have really beautiful friendship. We stay in touch, we chat about everything in life. But yeah, Manasu has been like one of the most beautiful persons I've come across and met. But again, it was taking a chance on a very weird, random way that even I wasn't used to. But again, I think there's always something in your gut that tells you I should have. Like sometimes you have those situations and you walk away from it and you're like, Man, I wish I had, and start thinking, just do it.

Dilshad: 11:43

Yeah, and I think that's just such a beautiful example of like something that you ended up with a friend, you know, you ended up with an artiste. And who knows, when you have your own coffee shop, you might resell some of her jewelry there, or or I don't even know what the collab might be, but this is someone who is you value this person, and absolutely it's a tough world, and it's really hard to find people that you will value. In fact, I was just thinking a fun story that I've witnessed of you is that's how we became friends. Oh my god, we became yeah, we became friends because you dared. I do think you grabbed me by the collar at one point, yeah, and made me sit down for lunch with you. And it was such a weird thing because I thought that you were this little good little girl who was not aggressive or passionate in any way, and then suddenly you show me the side of you, and I was like, damn, I really like this woman. And it's not every day you get grabbed by the collar or something, you know. And you did this at a corporate event. You did this, yeah, you did this at a corporate event. That's how we became friends, and so it's not even about a career, really, and we'll talk about career in a minute, but the relationships you built because you were just networking, the potential for networking, the highest potential of networking is community, it's friendship, it's creativity. If you think about how much we've inspired each other back and forth, it's insane. It's a it's so valuable because your creativity has sparked because I said something or did something. My creativity has sparked because you said something or I said something, you know. Yeah, it's so synchronistic that way. Give us a story about career, because a lot of people associate networking with career. How has it benefited you in your career specifically?

Jheel: 13:31

A favorite story. Yeah. So I'll share a very recent one, but before I share that, I do want to say like I know the word networking is usually associated with some sort of a career thought process. I would love to break that. Yeah. If anything I can do today is break that concept because it networking is not about career, it's about building community, like you said. It's about building connections. And that's why I said for me, networking is building genuine connections. It doesn't always need to have some sort of an ask tied to it because that's what the career networking turns into. It's like, oh, I want to go connect with an X person because I can get X out of that person or I can provide this to that person. And it doesn't need to be that way. Talk to people because you genuinely connect on something that you care about.

Dilshad: 14:20

I think that's an important point because people are always looking to get something from something. And they think that if they didn't get something that they wanted to get or they had an idea about in their head of what they would get, then it was a bust. But if you think about it this way, you grabbing my collar 10 years ago has led you to be on a podcast. This is your first podcast. Like how yeah, how would you have even predicted that? There's no way your little tiny brain with all our little worries and all our little things that we do every day could have even imagined that this was possible.

Jheel: 14:53

No, but it's not just like the podcast, right? Like the podcast is the big thing. We were talking about earlier. There's so many little things that you and I have shared that has been an inspiration for both of us. And it it's not something you can ever define or assume or predict going into that very first conversation of grabbing your collar. All I cared about at that point was, I think I want to get to know this girl. And if she's not gonna do it, I'm gonna do it and just see if that worked. Also, like, let's clarify, grabbing her collar was okay. I would not suggest that with anyone. I had kind of known they'll show the little outside of work at that point, which made it okay for me to grab her collar and be like, sit down, we're doing this.

Dilshad: 15:39

Hey, yes, everyone listening, the way to network is to grab somebody by their collar. Yeah, violence is always the answer. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, honestly, if you hadn't done it that way, I would never have talked to you. That's the honest truth. You're one of the hardest people to crack. Yeah, yeah. Back then, I mean, even now a little bit, but back then I was really bad. I had built a fortress, Fort Knox around me, and nobody was allowed in. I was just so anti-social. I just didn't want anything to I mean, part of it was also because, and I talk about this in episode four and five, like I was just so in the weeds of just trying to get my career, trying to get money, trying to stay afloat that I just didn't care about relationships. If I'm being honest, I didn't care. And also a lot of relationships, they really hurt me at the time. So, this is a fantastic example of you networking with someone and they not responding to you because of something that has nothing to do with you. And I needed to be jolted out of my little world, and you did that for me. And I'm very grateful you did. Oh God. Yeah, I know. Sorry, back to the questions. How has it benefited you in your corporate career if you have a favorite story?

Jheel: 16:51

Yeah, I think the one that comes to my mind as the most recent one. So I was recently let go from my old role, which I had been in for a really long time. And then I had a very short window to go find something else if I wanted to stay within the company. And it really was my network. It was the people that I had made genuine connections with over time and kind of kept in touch. And I remember reaching out to one of my old managers and just being like, hey, I've applied for this role. Can you share anything with me about the role or the team? Or do you know the person? Um I was just genuinely trying to find a way to make a connection for that role as well. And this is why this is so interesting to me, because it wasn't even like he knew anyone on that team. He knew somebody who knew somebody who connected us. So it was like a long chain of connections. And I was able to learn a lot more about what the expectations are and things like that. And I did land the role at the end of the day. But there is no way I would have been able to interview the way I did or speak to that team the way I did during the interview process had I not been able to make these connections. But again, that's what I'm saying. Like it's not just your direct connection. You just don't know who that person might know as well. Like if you're doing it for career purposes and if you're hoping to get some sort of an ask out of it, just talk to people. There doesn't always need to be like a direct connection that you have with that person. The world is connected. I think that was like one of the most beautiful things that I've seen unfold, my career-wise. And I think that's why corporate-wise, that's one of my favorite stories right now.

Dilshad: 18:39

I think that's such a cool story. Again, what you just said was the world is already connected, the world is already networked. It's up to you whether you want to plug into that more or let it just be dormant.

Jheel: 18:51

Oh, absolutely. The world's very small once you actually put yourself in it and you realize how insanely we're all connected. And it's beautiful. It's wonderful to see that when it all kind of comes together, you get to be part of it.

Dilshad: 19:06

Yeah. So we already touched upon this with false beliefs that people have about networking. One thing we talked about was transactional stuff. And the second thing I sort of touched upon, which is you never know what the outcome of any connection or relationship will be. So there's no point in you trying to figure that out ahead of time. That just be present with that person when you're connecting with them. Are there any other false beliefs about networking you know that are not true that you've seen people, especially recently with some of the experiences you've had, false beliefs that people held that you know are not true about networking?

Jheel: 19:44

You don't need to know small talk. Anything can be small talk. I always said that. I still kind of say it because I'm not really good at small talk, but I'm not good at the small talk the way it's been defined over the years. I don't do that. I don't go in with a list of questions or anything like that. You really don't need that. But if you're just starting out, then maybe it might help you to know one or two questions that are good opening questions for you. But be authentic, be you. Nobody wants to get to know a version that you're putting up. There's beliefs of like, oh, if you're a social butterfly, then you're gonna be really great at networking. And they probably will be because it comes easier to them. But it doesn't mean that if you're not a social butterfly or popular or however you want to think about it, that you're not gonna be good at it. Again, it's a skill set. Get out there, do it. You can practice it at home and with people you love and trust. It's just not gonna happen until you put yourself in those uncomfortable situations. It's never going to be comfortable. You just have to do it. And then it gets easier.

Dilshad: 20:51

Yeah, comfort is not something you should strive for in networking. Comfort has no place in networking. You can expect to be uncomfortable. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think a lot of people just want to regulate their nervous system and be calm all the time. And so they think discomfort means danger, but it's not. It's just anytime you do something new, there will always be a discomfort to it. And you never know when an introvertier introvert is waiting for another introvert to talk to them. You know, they're clear, right here. They're just waiting for someone to talk to them and talk to them realistically, and you know, and you could be the person who brings authenticity to a place that sometimes very rarely sees it, and it can be very refreshing. And from that perspective, I've brought my authenticity to these places and I have been so regretful for it because I took it as rejection, but really all it means is that that wasn't the right person, next. I think it's just really important that networking is not something you take personally in phase one of connecting with someone. You know, if someone's not open to it, next. It's got nothing to do with you or your competency. And I think for a while, especially in the career standpoint, I took it personally. I took it personally all the way up till the end of last year, actually, which you saw me go through. It's when I was rejected in the most horrible way, which is being fired. And I, not from my corporate career, but from a partnership I had with my business. And it was really interesting to see that even that was none of my business. I think that is something that I feel like is a false belief about networking. I have had to remove and not take it so personally when somebody is not open to me. What do you think about people always networking with people who just have really big careers, like the big wigs, the fancy titled people? That's something I've always seen people do, and I have my thoughts on it. What are your thoughts on it?

Jheel: 22:59

Nothing wrong in doing that. Definitely connect with those people as well if it's right for you, if those are the kind of connections you want, but don't limit yourself to it. There's much more to life than just those big titles or those big companies. Sometimes, like I said, like the most beautiful connections for me have been the smaller brands or the smaller companies that are starting off but becoming a huge name. And a lot of times those are the better connections for me with where I am in my life today. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the brands or the titles or company names, right? Sometimes it's just like, hey, this seems like an interesting person, and I want, I think I want to try and get to know that person if they're open to it. Don't put yourself in a box. It doesn't work.

Dilshad: 23:49

Personally, I've found more, if you want to call it a benefit, but more meaning in connecting with my peers, actually. Networking with my peers more than it has been. What I used to see a lot, especially when I started my career, is people just hounding the fancy titled people and being like, oh, let's grab coffee. Let me email you, let me send you my resume. And I would just feel so bad for these big titled people. But they just assumed that their peers had no power, had no agency. They would not spend the time to connect with their peers. They would instead just be like, they called it hustling. But for me, I don't think networking is about that. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Jheel: 24:31

No, not at all. I have definitely seen that in my early career. Actually, I saw it recently too at the events, right? Like you see, and I think a lot of times people who are just kind of stepping into the corporate world tend to make that mistake. We've made those mistakes too. So I'm not sitting here like, hey, I'm perfect and I did it right. I absolutely made those mistakes as well. It's very interesting because you always think like those big titles are going to get you in front of a certain situation, a certain job profile. It's very rare that that happens. Think about how many people are reaching out to them. And do you really think they're gonna always remember your name? Probably not. You would really have to make a certain mark for them to remember who you are, and you can do that as well. But like you said, it's your peers that you also want to connect with. And it's not just because you can eventually get there, it's also because what you do in your daily job, no matter what it is that you're doing, you're not the only one doing it. You're not capable of doing that job on your own either. There are people supporting you. Get to know those people, like get to know your team, get to know your RAT members, and treat them with that respect and dignity that they all deserve. It's what you do together that matters. It's not just like about you and what you're kind of trying to do in life.

Dilshad: 25:57

Yeah, speaking about it not being about you. First of all, let me just clarify that means value-added team. It's a corporate terminology, it just means the team that helps you do your job. It's just a very easy way of describing that. And speaking about networking, not just being about you. Like I said in the beginning of this episode, your networking led me to have a job with a manager that I love and a team that I love. And it's now been eight years I've been with that one team, and I refuse to go anywhere because of how it just works. The way we all work together, it just works for now. Doesn't mean I will always be there, doesn't mean it's a forever thing, but your networking led me to have a position for eight years. That's almost a decade. And there's something about being part of somebody else's dream and somebody else's manifestation and somebody else's good luck and somebody else's opportunity that opened something up in you. For example, us connecting, and I'm using us as an example because it's so easy to talk about that, but there's so many. But that one incident eight or 10 years ago when you sat down with me for lunch has just led you to have an experience with an amazing Italian man showing you his entire restaurant for hours, sitting with you, giving you all his recipes in Sedona. And that wasn't necessarily related to your corporate career, but it's related to something that was important to you: learning the restaurant business, learning the coffee shop business, and what the ins and outs of that. And being part of that, just being witness to that. And the reason you were connected to this man is because I was connected to this man because I really love his food. And I just made the effort of being extra nice to him and trying to talk to him about and just being happy and talking to him and celebrating him for his food. And that led me to connect you with him. And I would never have thought that my initial connection with him would lead to you connecting with him. But that's the person I thought of when I thought of someone who could give you advice and give you like the experience. And that happened eight years later, I think, in our friendship. But just being part of that experience and watching you go through all of that. And I remember saying it was like dropping you off to school. I felt like a mummy and being so proud of her daughter and dropping her off and being like, oh my God, she's following her dreams. It was so nice to watch you because I had to drop you off and drop you to the restaurant, then come back home, and I'd be like, Oh my god, it's so beautiful. So, yeah, I think that's a false belief about networking. We don't often think of is that it might not just be about you.

Jheel: 28:39

Yeah, it is like honestly, like one of my favorite stories too. I hold it so close to my heart. It was like one of the most beautiful connections I made as well, because there was no reason for him to open up his entire life to me. And for him to truly see my passion and pretty much tell me, like, hey, oh, let's find a spot in Sedona. He's like, move to Sedona and we'll do this together. And it was just, I learned so much that day. I feel like it was like literally got a crash course in running a restaurant. So yeah, you saying that you felt like you're dropping me off to school was very real for me. But I think this whole story also reminds me of something else. A lot of times people hold their networks a little too tight to themselves. You're not always willing to share your connections. I understand, like, you don't want to share every single connection you have, and it not every single connection is always open in that situation to be shared. But also don't hold your connections that tight to you. Like I said, we're all connected at the end of the day. So if you open up your network to others, you don't know where that would lead somebody. And you and I both experienced that, like you shared. You I opened up my network to you, you opened up people. In your life to me, it has led both of us in some incredible places. Don't hold it so tight that nobody else can be part of it. And then sharing your network doesn't mean that like now that network belongs to them. It's actually technically growing your network. You're just true.

Dilshad: 30:20

Yeah, it's growing the network. That's exactly right. Like it's not about what you own, because you can't own a person. And maybe you introducing them to your network helps the person you introduce them to. You never know. And I don't know where this connection with our Italian friend is going to go, but it'll probably go places we cannot even imagine. One of the things that really helped me get out of my networking sort of pigeonhole that I was in, I think the most that I got out of it was because of you, actually, because you know you were just let go. And I was so crazy upset and just so insanely annoyed with trying to find you something. And I couldn't help in the corporate arena because I am still very much in my silo there, in my little blanket in the corporate world. But outside of the corporate world, I have a lot going on. Out of desperation for you, I went and talked to him and prepped him in advance. And I was like, oh, networking comes so easy for me when it's about someone else. Maybe that's my top tip. If you are someone like me that just cannot get your wheels turning, think of like your dearest friend or a woman that you admire or a guy that helped you out one day and think of them and think of how you could benefit them and what impossible synchronicities might happen if you talked to this person with them in mind. And you don't even know how it would benefit them, but that might actually get you out of your head and make you just more open. What do you think of that tip?

Jheel: 32:00

No, I love that. Like it's a really great way of breaking out of your own little box that you put yourself into, and maybe doing it for somebody else will also let you do things for yourself as well. Do it for others, and you see the outcomes of that, and you'll hopefully somebody realize it can benefit you as well if you do it for yourself. But I do think, like, as difficult it was to like get to know you initially, I don't think people realize once you get to know Dilshad, she loves you with all her heart. And I have experienced this over and over again, no matter what phase of life has hit me. You have always been there as a rock. You've always been that person that I know I can call in the middle of the night and know that she's truly listening. She's gonna do everything in her power to make sure she can help you. And if not, then she's there to just listen. And sometimes that's all you need.

Dilshad: 32:59

So yeah, thank you for always doing that. I didn't expect I would start coming on this episode, but fine, fine. That's how you want to play it. It's true. It is, and I think that's why I used to guard myself because I knew how I was. I knew that I would just explode with love for someone and give my all to them. And in the past, that did not work out well for me. I think the guard was necessary, but it wasn't necessarily all of the time. So I'm glad you pushed through it. Thank you. Oh my lovelies, I hope you enjoyed part one because part two and part three are coming in hot. Part two is where we go into specific tips that we both have to give you when it comes to networking, when it comes to building community, when it comes to connecting with strangers, when it comes to building relationships with strangers. And we also talk about AI and its role in networking. That is such a juicy topic. I'm so glad we went into it. And then in part three, we talk about more tips and tricks. Only this time, Giel will be putting on her network mentor hat. Her networking mentor hat, sorry, and she will be guiding me through a recent situation that I had when it came to networking. Oh, so much juiciness coming your way. I hope you love this format, and yeah, just sit back, relax, and take it all in. Until next time, my lovelies.