Dilshad 0:03

This is Delicious Dignity, where we cultivate a self so potent, so clear, so vital, so truthful that our life is all the more luscious for it. Let's call ourselves into being, shall we? Hello lovelies. Heaven on earth, as you know, as you might think, is a state of mind. It's also a way of living for some people, and sometimes it's a way of creating a space for your business and putting it out into the world in a local physical way. And that business is not just your heaven on earth on this planet, but it can also be someone else's heaven on earth too. And that is why I have Mackenzie on here today. Her Pilates studio and her gym have made it my little heaven to sweat, to get strong, and to make it easier on me with this very perimenopausal body. I used to hate working out, and now I do it religiously three to four times a week. And I don't know about you, but when it comes to building a physical business, or really any business is intimidating, but a physical business seems especially intimidating. And here is McKenzie. She has three studios within a roughly 25-mile radius, and all of them are beautiful and clean, and she puts so much thought into everything she does. If Mackenzie was a tarot card, she would be the empress. If there is one word to describe her, it would be prolific. She's so much fun to watch because she's constantly doing new things, weird things, fun things with her business, trying new things out, everything from puppies and Pilates to matcha and bro lattes, and which is the male version of Pilates, which is hilarious. And in a world where that's beginning to be run by AI, quite frankly, I think in person anything is so important. And so I really respect the space that McKenzie has set. I respect the way it's run. So I think that if we're gonna learn from anyone on building a business, especially a physical or local business, it has to be McKenzie. So McKenzie, thank you so much for coming on the show today. So please introduce yourself however you like.

Makenzie Sulfaro 2:18

Oh, thank you, Dilsha. That was that was so sweet. Well, I'm McKenzie. I own, like Dilsha said, three Pilates studios, and we also own a gym in Cottonwood. That's right. That's right. So it's super fun. I am also a mom of a three-year-old boy. He is so feral. He is the cutest little thing, and she's not my driving force. He's my reason I like to work so much. Really? Yeah. Sometimes I'm like, lovey, I love you. I need human adult interaction. I need to get away from you. Sweet child of mine. And so work is kind of like an escape, which is great.

Dilshad 3:01

That's beautiful. Yeah. And he gets to watch you. What an inspiration to have your mom do what you're doing. You know, most of us have, most of us, if you think about it, have never seen any of our family members do something like that. And he gets to watch you dwell in this space of infinite possibility, which is how I see you, which is like infinite, just prolific, fertile, empress, you know, like a queen. And he gets to watch, I think that's just I think that that's like a legacy that you're setting up without it meaning to be. Right. That's so brilliant.

unknown 3:36

Okay.

Makenzie Sulfaro 3:36

And he actually, when he was born, I went to work two weeks postpartum, which I was like, I need to get out of my house. But when I think he was maybe four weeks old or six weeks old, is when I started wearing him to work. So I went back to full-time work right away. And I wore him every day to work, like on my chest, in until he was around like one year old. And I used to have a high chair set up in the corner and I'd feed him his breakfast while teaching. So he was with me at the studio until he was unable to be contained. And then at one year old, I finally was like, okay, we need to find something else. But so he's been with us. He's a better Pilates instructor than most people at this point.

Dilshad 4:18

Yeah, he instructs his mom, doesn't he? Yeah. Oh God, yeah, he's the boss. I think that's beautiful. You know, like you just you just went right back to it. And you know, sometimes some people need to heal. Some people sometimes people need to heal by actually going out and creating something. Because I've always said that creativity is the best medicine for really anything. And you're here you are creating a physical being, and then you went and created a business too. Yes. That's just beautiful. I think you've built something that I would describe as beautiful, not just functional. And a lot of fitness spaces that I was in were actually really ugly, really depressing. With those fluorescent lights and the weights that are disintegrating as you touch them. And it's just awful. It's an awful environment. And so I used to think I don't like going to the gym. That's what I used to think. But it turns out it's not that I didn't like going to the gym. I just didn't like going to those gyms. And so a lot of fitness spaces are just fine. They're functional. Clean enough, functional enough. But you clearly were not going for fine or functional enough. You were going for something else. So what were you going for? And was that intentional from day one, or did it evolve?

Makenzie Sulfaro 5:28

It has evolved. So day one, nothing was intentional. Everything that we have now was a complete accident and it wasn't supposed to be what it is. So we went through a complete rebranding everything as we realized that the studio is here to stay and we keep growing. Um, so it was not intentional from day one. It has evolved. When we did decide to expand, we kind of tried to figure out like what is our niche or what do we want in the long run. And I agree with you in regards to other gyms and how they're just they're there. You work out, you get in, you get out, you leave, you're done. I am not a workout person. I never was a workout person. I never liked it. I still like it more than I used to, but I like it even more if I'm looking at a chandelier, right? Something pretty, sparkly to take your mind off of it. And you're, I'm I was trying to, and I am trying to create an experience from the moment you walk in to the moment you leave. You are working out is hard. Working out is not typically everyone's most favorite activity. But if you go somewhere that makes you feel good and it's a good experience, and it can kind of get you out of that mindset of like, I'm just here, I'm just doing what I have to do. But it's a it's a good, refreshing experience. And it the environment is clean and it's sparkly and it's pretty to look at. And there's just little thoughtful things here and there, then it just makes the whole process a little bit less awful.

Dilshad 6:54

That surprises me because it seems intentional. Like that's how you were born. Like you just came out into the world and chandeliers instead of fluorescent lights and perfectly gorgeous like furniture that's not furniture, it's actually gym equipment, but it looks like furniture. It looks like your living room. How did you start then?

Makenzie Sulfaro 7:12

You started with just bare bones or when we started, we opened our studio in 2020 in Cottonwood. And that was our first Ploty studio. We started very bare, but still pretty. So it was the same, that was still the same aesthetic of like the off-white, the we had more shiplap. It was more of it, it was basically how it is right now, minus the chandeliers. So the only thing we didn't have were chandeliers, and I just wanted it to be a clean environment, but not sterile. So we pulled in a lot of like the natural woods, one with the reformers, but then other little accent pieces. And I really wanted it to first when I started, I wanted it to be very gender neutral. Um, so not too girly, a place where men can come in and feel like they're not walking into the woman's world. Um, so I still try and do that, but with chandeliers. Like I'm not getting rid of my chandeliers. Men like chandeliers, men like a little sparkle in their life. Um, so, and I am, I have ADHD. Wow, it's insane. So I also needed something more neutral for me to be able to focus. So I needed like a neutral palette as far as the colors go. So I'm not like ping-ponging everywhere in my mind or my senses. Um, and then the chandeliers, I was trying to think how the chandeliers came. I think we had a spare chandelier. I don't remember where the spare chandelier came from. Maybe we were moving or something, and then we decided to put it in the Cottonwood Pilates studio in the entryway. And then we had to, we redid the Cottonwood studio to add more reformers and we took out a hallway and then we took out the track lights that we had in there. And I think I'd said, Joe, like, let's do more chandeliers. Like, I want more. And then that's just how the chandeliers came to be. And now we have them everywhere, at least minimum floor in a studio.

Dilshad 9:08

Yeah, I've noticed. And now you just moved into a new studio with these gorgeous arches and the chandeliers, but it's so much more than that. Like, even the equipment is gorgeous, the flooring is gorgeous, everything is gorgeous. And you're saying it wasn't like that in the beginning, it was sterile-ish.

Makenzie Sulfaro 9:23

It still had the same, it still had the same feeling. It just honestly just didn't have the sparkle. So everything was still intentional as far as the the equipment was the same, everything like that. But there just wasn't as much thought put into it as I put into it now. Um, so for example, when I opened the our first studio, we had maybe five reformers, but the bathroom I hadn't redone. There was the bathroom was just what it was before it, I just left it how it was because it just wasn't important. But now I know it sounds small, but for the bathrooms, I want them to be pretty and done. And I want them to have hair ties, breath bents, deodorant, face wash, like face wipes, all of that small intentional things that wasn't really a thought in the beginning because I was never opening a studio to stay. I was never opening a studio to run a studio forever. It was a means to an end when I opened.

Dilshad 10:26

Wow. And so now it's become a lifestyle now for you, it seems.

Makenzie Sulfaro 10:30

Yeah, I don't want to say it's my whole life, but it's a very large part of my life. I refer to the studio as I used to say it was my baby, but now I've realized it's more like an annoying little brother that I love and I can't get rid of. And I love it so much. And you feel like you're gonna step away a little bit, and then something happens and you gotta go back, and you just nurture it. It's just like my little brother.

Dilshad 10:56

Yeah, I think that's beautiful because what I'm hearing is is that you started how you started, and then you just grew into it. I think a lot of women, especially me, want everything to be perfect right from the beginning. And that idea of perfect versus just good enough to start, how do you know the difference? Or were you just born this way?

Makenzie Sulfaro 11:18

I think I was just born this way. I have coached other people on starting a business. You have. Okay. Yeah. So I've helped people anywhere from like interior design to Pilates studios, other little things in between. And my biggest thing is it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have just do it, just do it and refine it as you go on. Like it doesn't have to be perfect, especially if it's a service that your community is lacking, or even a service that you want, and so you're creating it kind of more so for yourself. There's other people out there that want that service, and they're not gonna come in and be like, wow, Mackenzie, your bathroom didn't have hair ties when you opened. Or you didn't I didn't have a sign in Sedona for a year and a half, and no one was like, Okay, I'm like, I had one person make a comment about it, but they weren't even a client, and nor did they become a client because that wasn't the vibe I wanted in my studio based on the comment of the sign, but no one was like, Wow, Mackenzie, you don't have a sign at your Sedona studio. Like that doesn't change the quality of the product or the service that I'm offering. And you can always just refine it as you go. We have redone our website completely. We changed our name of our studio. I think it was a year and a half in. We changed the name completely. Our logo, our name, our website, everything. We changed it. So it's nothing is ever stuck in stone. Just do it.

Dilshad 12:52

You started a physical location without even a sign. At least you have a physical location without even a sign. That just shows what that just proves your point. Like you're and what you said that I think I can take away from this and people listening is that the difference between good enough and perfect is that the way you qualify for good enough is that you're offering a service that people would want, or you're offering the service that you would want. And would you say that that's the right definition of good enough to start?

Makenzie Sulfaro 13:21

I wouldn't even say, I don't think I think the word I think the saying good enough needs to change. Oh, you mean because good enough kind of has a negative context. Like, you know, when you're getting dressed and you're like not feeling yourself and you're like, Well, this is good enough. I'm just gonna do it. That's good enough.

Dilshad 13:37

To me, it feels like relief.

Makenzie Sulfaro 13:39

It's like, oh, but I can see how we have to kind of like change it a little bit. Like good enough to me has more of a negative connotation, or like it's not good enough.

Dilshad 13:51

You know what I mean?

Makenzie Sulfaro 13:52

And we need to find that space between good enough and perfect where you feel good, period. Like this is good, period. I love it. Not good enough. This is good, period. This is good. This is good. Nothing has to be great, excellent, perfect because that's not even obtainable. There's things in my studio that I still want to change, and we evolve as humans, and so I think our services, our products, our education, everything is gonna evolve as we go on because we're learning as humans, and everything I say, I always say, whatever I say today, I might change tomorrow. So, my viewpoints, even in in how I coach or teach, instruct, for my teacher trainings. I said things my first teacher training that I don't stand by on my fifth teacher training. So it's just things just have to be what you put out is good, right? It's good, period. Not good enough, but it's good and it's gonna evolve and it doesn't have to be perfect.

Dilshad 14:54

That was so excellent, Mackenzie. And what I also hear is that you give yourself a lot of grace in a way a lot of people don't you don't even see it as needing to give grace to, even. But it's just like you don't hold yourself to a standard that's impossible. Because it's not even a standard at that point. At that point, it's just internalized guilt and shame, which I think a lot of people have. But yeah, I really like that. It's good. Let's go.

Makenzie Sulfaro 15:20

Yeah, it's good, let's do it. And then and I love, I always ask from my clients. Anytime I open a new space or put a new class format on or change anything, even when I change the reformer locations, how they actually are laid out in the physical studio. I want feedback always. If you put something out there and you waited for it to be perfect, and then you're saying this is perfect. Now I'm putting it out there, and then you get feedback on it. That's going to be like, wow, I thought it was perfect. And now someone is saying that I should do X, Y, and Z. Waiting for something to be perfect doesn't leave room for improvement anyway. So I always want feedback. So I put it out bare. For example, that backspace that we have right now that we're doing our strength training in in our new Sedona studio. It's bare bones. Okay. I want to know the feedback from our clients, from our instructors. What do you like? What is working? What's functional? What's not functional? How can we improve it? And now I literally have outside of my house all of the things that I got feedback-wise, as far as mirrors, furniture, murals, painting. I have all of that lined up to then improve the experience and the space.

Dilshad 16:34

Yeah, it's so funny because that's the space I'm talking about that I love the most is the strength training space. And I just love that because it's even though you call it bare bones to me, it's still so much better than it's this tiny little room, but it's still so much better than some of the biggest gyms, most incredible gyms I've ever been to. That says something. And this other thing you said, which is you had somebody critique the fact that you didn't have a sign, and you're like, oh, I just don't want that in there anyway. And I think that's so important because the people who are gonna hate are gonna hate. And I don't think people realize this enough, is that it doesn't matter what you do, some people will just hate on you for it, and you just learn to move past it and say, Oh, that's not the vibe I want anyway.

Makenzie Sulfaro 17:18

Which is different. It's not the energy we want in the studio, so and not one thing fits all, not one studio fits all, not one product instructor, whatever fits all. So that's fine, go find what fits you best because it's not us, my friend.

Dilshad 17:31

Yeah, and you've made the distinction between hate and feedback, and somehow you can like distinguish between the two, and I think that's so important. Not all opinion is feedback, and not all opinion is hate, but you can see the difference, you know, and I think sometimes people think that whatever people say is valid or whatever people say is not valid, you know, they go into either extreme, and I like the way that you're able to differentiate between the two. Speaking of which, walk me through what it actually took to open the first studio, like the one in Cottonwood before the before the chandeliers, not the highlight reel version, but like what surprised you? Where did you have to hold the line versus where did you have to compromise, etc.?

Makenzie Sulfaro 18:14

I remember I had just moved back to Cottonwood after I got engaged to Joe, and I was going to school, I was in a nursing program, I was working towards going to nurse practitioner school to become a child psychiatrist. So all of this was an accident. I had no idea. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I never wanted to be a Pilates instructor for life. Oh my God. Yeah. So my first career was in education. I was living in Phoenix and I worked for a school district. So we had summers off. I needed extra money to live, and I was going to school. So I started working at a Pilates studio as the front desk girl, answering phones, emails, and then summer came around. They were looking for a new manager. I or general manager and I had managerial experience. So I basically took on that role for the summer to see if it was a good fit. And then it was. So I left my job in the school districts, became general manager of these two studios, and I did that. And then I decided to become an instructor to make more money because school was really expensive. And I knew the further along I got in school, I needed to step back from the managerial role so I could focus on school more. And so that's how I became a Pilates instructor. And then I ended up really liking Pilates. But it was all not, it was this was never my path. Ever. Never ever.

Dilshad 19:45

Yeah, see, when I looked at it, it feels like she was born to do Pilates.

Makenzie Sulfaro 19:49

I think of it as I always wanted to be in the mental health field, psychiatry, child psychiatry specifically. So I look at teaching Pilates as my contribution to people's mental health. And it just looks a little bit different than the traditional path that I thought I was going to take.

Dilshad 20:06

It is definitely 100%. You know, like one of the things people say, you know, where do you start with your spiritual practice? Where do you start with mental health? I'm like, go to the gym and lift some weights, start there, and then we can talk about the rest. Because I feel like so much is bypassed, or there's so much spiritual escapism and therapy escapism when really we have to get into our bodies. And going to the gym is such a safe way to start getting into your body so that you can release tough emotions and tough pain later on. So I think that's 100% on point. So then you became a Pilates instructor. And then how did you open a studio from there?

Makenzie Sulfaro 20:43

Right. I became a Pilates instructor. I moved back to Cottonwood when I met Joe, I think in like 2018 or 2019, and I remember it so vividly. I was going to school full time. I was managing a loan company in Cottonwood because there was no Pilates up here where I could teach at. And I was sitting on the couch with my girlfriend, Carrie. Oh, love her. And I was miserable. I was so miserable. I started taking antidepressants. I hated my job. I hated work. I was so stressed out. Oh my God. I was so stressed out. And we were talking, it was in February 2019. And somehow the conversation came up of like, why don't you just quit everything and open a Plotting studio? And I said, okay. I unenrolled in school the next day. I made an LLC that day for my studio. So I made an LLC that day. I talked to Joe, and he thought it was a great idea because he saw how stressed I was with school and trying to manage work full time, school full time, especially trying to go into the medical field. And we were getting married in 2020. So I decided I'm going to open a Pilates studio, just a small little studio. I'm going to be the only instructor. I'm going to teach all the classes. Once we get married in 2020, 2020, we will close and move. Our plan was to move to a different state. So that's how it came about. And it's really funny. I literally, uh February is when I made my LLC. And then COVID happened. So it was actually February of 2020. That's when it was. COVID happened. And I was supposed to open March of 2020, the very next month. So I found my space like that. So I made my LLC. There was a space up for lease. I got it. It was great. It was perfect. Joe was renovating it. And then we were supposed to open about a month later. COVID happened. Shut down everything, which was wild. And honestly, it shut down my work as well at the loan company. So I got to work from home and work on my business more, like promoting it, social media, my website, all of that stuff, which was actually really cool. But we ended up opening May of 2020. And then it went from there. But it was really, I just Googled everything. I literally just Googled it all. Like, how do you open a business? And then it kind of there was like steps. So first was your LLC and then your location. And then there was like little things that you didn't know you needed until you needed a different piece. So for example, we needed our, we needed, I can't even remember what the certificate was. Maybe our business license, I think it was our business license, but we needed our TPT and we couldn't get our, it was like this weird thing. And I'm like, I don't know what a TPT is. So back to Google, I go. What is a TPT? And then it's like your tax number, tax privilege, whatever for resale. So I got that. And then you needed to get insurance. It was really like you need one thing, and then they ask for another weird number. And I'm like, I don't even know what that number is. So then I guess, Google, what is this number? And I was never stressed about it because it was all in my name. Everything was in my name. I wasn't married yet. And my contingency plan was we'll just all on my own file bankruptcy and then move on if it doesn't work out. And so that was the plan.

Dilshad 24:10

What a way to think about this. You see, because you turned every disadvantage you had from COVID, from not liking the job, from being stressed out and burnt out, from being on antidepressants into an opportunity. And every step of the way, everything was an opportunity for you, even though in the moment it didn't feel that way for sure. And then, oh my god, you said something I was just like, wow, this is such an incredible way to think of it. And maybe it'll come to me, but I think that that's such a beautiful way to show people that sometimes your path is one thing, or you think it's one thing, because you're so fixated on the form of it. Like mental health only means psychiatry. And so you think psychiatrist, and then you just put in all your effort there, but sometimes it's the energy. It's just like mental health is the energy. What form it takes is come is like sometimes not even up to you. You just kind it just kind of comes along. And I I just feel like so many people can take from that and see that for what it is, and you were flexible enough to where you were not stubborn about making something work, because I think, especially my audience, has a lot of women who will push and push some more until their hair is falling out, until their cortisol is so high, and they just don't know when to quit, or rather, when to surrender to a different form of the thing that they want to create. Listening to your story, I think it's such a beautiful story. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you. No, thank you. I mean, I had no idea this was your story until what you just told me.

Makenzie Sulfaro 25:48

It all just kind of fell into place. And so I was like, okay, it's just meant to be. Yeah, and you're fine with failure. If it goes bankrupt, it goes bankrupt. Then what? Then you just move on to the next thing. It is what it is. There's no reason to, I mean, if you stress about it, then that's what you're fixated on. And then you know what? Then that's where your energy and your thoughts are, and you're more likely to fail. So just don't think about it. Just don't think about it.

Dilshad 26:11

I love it. Just don't think about it. You're not gonna die. Yeah, that's true. That's that's incredibly true. And so then this other thing that women will wrestle with, though, is that how do you decide what to compromise on and what was non-negotiable? Because sometimes, especially my audience, will see things that are out of their integrity or they perceive it to be that way, and then they'll either abandon it entirely, or they will compromise and compromise to the point where the final result looks nothing like their initial vision.

Makenzie Sulfaro 26:45

I think there hasn't really been a lot of situations where I feel like I've been in a position where I needed to compromise or not. I think for me, when I try to open new, if I ever look at expanding or someone asks me to expand or whatever, I'm not gonna force it. So that's where I won't compromise. So I won't push and push. If they're I'm not gonna try and put a circle in a square hole or vice versa, whatever the saying is. If when I opened the studio in Cottonwood, it all just kind of fell into place. Like the space fell into place. It wasn't hard. It wasn't hard to secure a location. If it's hard, I'm not, I then it's not meant to be. If I have to keep following up and being a little gnat in someone's ear or nagging, or if things are too challenging, I personally take that as my sign, as it's not it's not meant to be in Sedona, what I never wanted to open in Sedona. Never, ever. I always said I'm never opening in Sedona. Why is that? Sedona is such a transient community, such a transient community that it's really, and I I for the majority of my life growing up, I grew up here. I grew up in Cottonwood. So I've seen Sedona grow and change and shift. And having a brick and mortar in Sedona is very challenging. It's very, very challenging.

Dilshad 28:10

Let me just say this for the audience. So Cottonwood is more of like a residential town, like pure, true residence. Sedona is a tourist town, very touristy. People come in, there's a lot of traffic, everything is made for tourists, and it's so incredible that you built a permanent physical local business that's in this kind of community. And these two locations, Cottonwood is about half an hour away from Sedona, uh uh driving wise. And so, yeah, so continue.

Makenzie Sulfaro 28:41

Yeah. So for Sedona, for example, as someone asked me, a client asked me, Oh, I would love if you opened in Sedona because we love Pilates and we love your studio. The drive is just hard. Totally understand. So I just willy-nilly looked in Sedona and there was a spot. And so I contacted the commercial representative, toward this spot. I was like, Yeah, this would work. This would totally work. And he presented it to the owner and they agreed, and it worked out. There is an example. So we were trying to open our gym in Sedona, and this was a very recent one, and this was hard. This was hard.

Dilshad 29:18

This one I was a witness to, too.

Makenzie Sulfaro 29:20

Yeah, someone you were, and this one really it was really hard for me emotionally, which was I don't know. So we wanted to open our gym in Sedona as well, and we had a location, it would work. The price of this location was amazing. When I say the price of this look, it was like, how can I pass this up? How can I pass up the price of this location for the size of this location in Sedona? This is unheard of. And so that was really something that led me to overlook some aspects of the building that weren't exactly what I wanted for our gym. For example, the ceilings were really low, but I was like, for this price, I can overlook it and try and make it work. But the owner of the building, sweet lady, love her, wish her well. Our communication styles are very different, very different. Okay. And it just, it wasn't lining up. It wasn't lining up. I was having to push to try and get things done, to get things signed. And the space wasn't even really what I wanted, what I had envisioned for our gym. And it was literally like the last right before we signed our lease. I was like, you know what? Something else, another hiccup had come up with communication styles with the owner, and it was taking too long. And I was like, this, I'm forcing this. And the space isn't what we really want. It's not what we have envisioned. And I know I already told my clients that we were opening a gym and I know the price point, I'm never gonna find this price again in Sedona. When I say it was that good, it was that good. It wasn't it. So I had to let it go. I had to sit in that and feel it. And I was really bummed. I was really disappointed. I was really sad that it didn't work out. But after I had told the owner and told my clients, like, sorry, you guys, like this is not it. This is not it. I felt like a weight was lifted off of me. And so that was, I was like, okay, this is not meant to be. A better space will come available when it's supposed to, when it's the right time. And then I had things in my personal life that kind of showed up after I had let that go. And I was like, wow, like I, me and my husband were like, well, I don't know if we could have survived opening a gym here at this time in our lives because we have so many things in our personal life going on that I need to step back and take care of myself. And I'm like, wow, like that wasn't meant to be. And I'm so glad I listened to my gut feeling and didn't force that space. So it's really, I guess, just compromising with my, not even my values, but listening to my feelings and knowing when things are right and when they're not, and not and just honoring that and not trying to force it when it's not supposed to be.

Dilshad 32:11

That's thank you for sharing that because compare that to this new studio that you just opened in Sedona. So you had a studio in Sedona, and then you just shifted two rooms away from that studio into another one, which in my opinion is so much better than the old one. And I love it. So compare that experience to this one that you had. What was what was different? What was the same?

Makenzie Sulfaro 32:37

It was easy. The same space that we're talking about that we were gonna do our gym in. We were going to put our Pilates studio in. It would have been perfect for a Pilates studio. Again, price amazing. Location, not as happy about because I love being so close to Safeway and the UPS store because I return everything and I always need something from Safeway. So I love the location of where our current studio is. So we were going to move it into that other studio location. Again, it just wasn't working out. The timelines weren't working out. We still had time on our current lease, and it was presenting an issue trying to break that lease. It was going to cost us a whole lot of money, almost like money where you couldn't swallow the break of it. And the owner didn't want us to leave. They just didn't want us to leave. I got into a few little tips with the owner, and I was like, that's fine. Um we'll stay. But one, you can't talk to me like that. Two, you need a we need a bigger space. We've outgrown this space. We need a bigger space. And so it they're just like, okay, this space is available. Do you want it? And these were my terms. I gave them my terms and I said it's this or nothing. And at this point, I rather close my studio than the behavior on the owner side was not okay. So we did have our conversations and our come to Jesus there. Um, but I said, these are my terms, and either take it or don't. But if you don't, that's fine. I'm okay with that. I'm not gonna negotiate, I'm not gonna change it. And they they took it. Okay. So we're in our space now.

Dilshad 34:16

Yeah. So the new owner wasn't as sweet or nice as the owner of the building you would have the that you wanted.

Makenzie Sulfaro 34:23

Yeah, the owner of the current space that we're in, they're I mean, they live in California, they're like a big, big-time commercial, whatever with a million other businesses, like just you know, just what you think of, like the typical male, successful California guy. I don't even know how to explain. Like, it's literally what you would expect. Like it's what you would think of when you're dealing with someone who has buku bucks, owns a million large commercial plazas, and is just very the commercial representative of the space, just likes to say, Oh, that's how he is. Like it's he's just what did he say? Eccentric. I'm like, that's not eccentric, that's crossing a line. Yeah. And you don't speak to people that way.

Dilshad 35:11

Yeah. And you had your come to Jesus moment with him and then got into this new studio. Yeah.

Makenzie Sulfaro 35:17

But it still felt right then the because it was easy. Like I said, it was easy. Even though I had my disagreements with the owner of the plaza, I we rectified that, we moved on, whatever it happens, and it was easy. That's it was easy. I got so when we looked at that new building, we looked at that new building, I think, in maybe September. We spoke to the owner of where we are now about saying that we need a bigger space. Can we get out of our lease? They came to us in December or maybe the end of November. We signed our lease for that new space we're in right now, and we opened it January or February 1st. I can't remember. So it was like that. It was easy. It was easy. So that's what I that's when I'm like, oh yeah, this is perfect. This is easy. This is the route. The other route was hard.

Dilshad 36:12

Uh have you ever heard of gene keys by any chance? Uh it's kind of like a personality test, but on steroids, but like soul levels, very special. And this guy who, Richard Rudd, who uh developed the system, he merged a whole bunch of different systems together, like astrology, I Ching, and everything to create the system. And one of the things he says in one of the personality traits is he says that for these people, easy is right. That's all you have to remember. Easy is right. I've begun to really take that in. Easy is right. Because I think a lot of people think that the struggle is real, so to speak, but actually it's just as real as you make it out to be. And so for you, this was this was a way to do strategy. Easy is right.

Makenzie Sulfaro 37:00

Yeah, and if it's too hard, it's it's too hard. And I mean, can you imagine? I mean, I just can't. I my mental capacity for that type of ongoing stress. And if it's hard to get in, then what's the rest of it gonna look like? If it was already so hard just to get in the door, what is the rest of it? Um I'm not trying to fight an upward battle forever. No. Yeah.

Dilshad 37:24

Okay. Do you have any standards for your customers? Like for people who come in, uh, because let me see where this is coming from. Let's say that somebody wants to open a coffee shop. You know, they might have a standard like no laptops, no wi-fi. And I can think of one coffee shop here in Sedona that has no Wi-Fi. Me too, and it drives me crazy. It drives me crazy too. But they have these standards, right? Or maybe somebody has an online business and whatever, like they have some standards for their customers. And I think we don't talk about this enough as businesses that we also have standards for people who come to our business. That's fair. You might even call them boundaries, whatever. So you do have a four-hour cancellation policy as an example. And that's I I guess that's not a small thing to enforce, and maybe you enforce it, maybe you don't. But how do you have standards like that or boundaries for with clients? And yeah, I yeah.

Makenzie Sulfaro 38:19

So when we first started, I had no boundaries again. I had nothing, I had no boundaries. I was answering the phone at 7 p.m. Oh my god, I remember we it was the day before we opened. I'm at Fry's getting balloons. My mom is there, my work phone is ringing. She says, McKenzie, don't you answer that? Don't you answer that? It was like 7 p.m., 7:30, and I answered it. And then I was on the phone for an hour with Miss Sue Brown. We love you, Sue. And I so I had no boundaries then. But now I have a lot of boundaries. I've set up a lot of boundaries. The four-hour cancellation policy, that one is an industry standard, I would say, especially for the appointment-based services, which is what we are. Four hours is a really most cancellation policies are minimum eight to 12 hours upwards, which is crazy. I always say with my clients, one, I'm awful at enforcing it. Yeah. Honor the four hours. Yeah. But I'm never someone that's going to penalize you for life happening, right? So we are just like a very all we ask for is communication with our clients and everything. I think that it goes into our biggest standard that we have for our clients and our instructors is kindness. Kindness overall. We are 100% no nasty tolerated, no nasty. I don't know how you speak to people, how you engage with people, how you engage with me, with Joe, with anyone around you. We are no nasty. And that kind of goes into the cancellation policy. Just being kind, being considerate, you know what I mean? Just like thinking of others. So when you're planning your day, oh, maybe I can't make that class. Let me cancel it so that someone else can get into that spot. But really just being kind. And we never want to penalize anyone for having a life. That's why we typically don't enforce it. We just ask for communication, text us so that we can get someone in that wait list on. Late cancel, I don't care. Just don't, really, just don't no-show us, don't ghost us and let that spot go to waste. And it really is, it's kind of more of a scare tactic. Yeah. Or just to kind of get people to sit down and think about it for a second and be like, oh, let me be mindful of others that are trying to take that class. Let me not just book it and then be like, oh, if I can't make it, I can't make it. No.

Dilshad 40:40

Yeah, and that's fair. Some standards you don't have to enforce, they're just a standard. And or they can be enforced when it's done repeatedly or whatever, because you're flexible on it. And there are some things that are just a hard no, and that's no nasty. Has there been some examples? I mean, you don't have to give like details about the person, obviously, if you don't want to, but has there been examples where you've had to really enforce a standard?

Makenzie Sulfaro 41:02

I have let go of instructors. Okay. It goes both ways: instructors and clients. The studios are a safe place for people to come in and the fitness group classes, all of that is already inherently a vulnerable and situation. Especially for me. Yes, it's very for everyone, especially for people that are new at working out or people that are just going through it. Maybe you have someone who's really seasoned in their fitness life, but they're having a hard time mentally or personally. They're coming in already feeling vulnerable because there's tough things going on and they can't deal with people, instructors or clients being nasty or rude. So there I've enforced it with instructors that are and I've let them go because they just don't, they didn't have that. They weren't, they were not kind. They were not kind to a client to a point where it wasn't a I'm having a hard day or I didn't mean to. It was just like a character flaw, not flaw, but just character trait that maybe they lacked. And then as far as clients go, there have been some clients where I had to have conversations with, but also it's very much you have to sometimes take a step back and come from an understanding place. One, and I've seen this happen a lot, a lot. Women will come in and they're a little bit on edge or a little bit short, a little bit sassy, a little bit quicky. Yes, they're uncomfortable, they're nervous. You know what I mean? So some people's uncomfortableness shows up in different ways, and sometimes they're a little snippy and it comes off as rude because frankly, it is a little rude, but you have to like come from a place of understanding as the instructor. Even though someone, and I've learned this just watching my mom, even though someone is 50, 60, 70, does not mean that they are coming into somewhere new, especially a vulnerable space, confident and sure of themselves and not nervous. Like people get nervous still, especially coming into a new workout. So there have been times where you just have to step back, look at it objectively, talk to them, get to know these people, and then sometimes they soften and they're like, Yeah. Then you get to know their story and you're like, okay, I understand why you came in like this. But then there are also just people that are just fucking rude. There are people who I I don't think I've ever actually fired a client. I've had conversations where I'm like, you can't behave this way, and they're either going through something or they understand. I always say the clients that I have wanted to fire, they quit on their own because we're not the right sp, we're not the right space for them and they feel it.

Dilshad 43:53

Yeah.

Makenzie Sulfaro 43:53

So you know what I mean? Like they, I've had this one person and she was fucking rude. She was rude. And she asked me once, we weren't open on Friday evenings. And she said, Why? Because you don't want to work. And I was like, No, I don't want to work on a Friday evening. You're right. You're right. I don't. And I always kill people with kindness. And those people that don't receive it don't like it. Cause that's just not who they are. And then they don't they fizzle out on their own. So I've never really ever had to fire a client. I have had to have conversations with clients and it's always worked out. But those people that I have wanted to fire, it's always like right when I'm about to have that conversation, I get an email or call or a text or whatever. And they're like, uh, we need to cancel. I'm like, okay, perfect. You're canceled as of now. Bye. Yeah.

Dilshad 44:41

So it always works out. I I so love all the stories you're sharing. And I know that the listeners are too. As I'm listening, I'm also listening as a listener, and I'm listening as a podcaster, and I'm like, wow, this is awesome. And here you are saying, How did you start this? By saying, I don't know if I have anything exciting to share. Every single piece has been exciting.

Makenzie Sulfaro 45:01

It's just like all of it is just so honestly, everything in my business has been so unintentional that it's like I always feel like my story is a little bit disappointing for people because it's like there is no grandmaster plan.

Dilshad 45:16

Those are the most exciting stories. Those are the most exciting stories. And they're the most real too, because you know, it takes a certain kind of person to respond to life and not control it. And I think we can all learn from that. Too tired to try and control everything. It's too much work. It's too much work. That's amazing. Thank you. So you're constantly trying new things. It reads more like you're playing. You know, like I said, puppy lattes and this and that, new studio, this and that. So how do you decide what you're gonna try? And how do you know when something is not working?

Makenzie Sulfaro 45:49

We've tried, we do a different pop-up pop-up events and like bro lottis, or we have the matcha come in, um, things like that. And honestly, things that I do are literally all upon request with our studios itself. I am all about supporting local. I cater my studios to our local communities. I don't cater to tourists, I don't advertise, I don't try and profit on tourism. I don't say, like, hey, like here's a special, here's a deal, here's a discount. Take X. No, like I am all about community, especially in Sedona, where it is such a heavy tourist community. I really want to focus on those that live there. So, for example, the matcha. We've had matcha come to the studio a few times. It's Red Rock matcha. She lives in Sedona, she started her own cute little matcha business. It's delicious. And she reached out to me, and I really wanted to do a little bit, a little collaboration with her to help get her business out there. And so that's why we did the matcha, the bro Lottis. I had a few men ask to do a man-only Pilates class. And then I had a few wives ask, hey, I want my husband to do Pilates and he wants to do it with men. And so I do it. And it's really, it really is play. It's I do things that I think are fun that I want to do. For example, we do a lot of date night classes in Cottonwood specifically with couples because I think it's fun. And I want to do a date night workout class with my husband. And then we do like charcuterie or something after to get to know people. But really, all it really is all very community driven. What are things that can benefit the community, whether it's a fundraiser where we're, you know, raising funds for different charities or different things that have happened within the community where that a specific family might need a little bit more community support. So we do things like that, or we like to promote other local businesses, all of that type of stuff. Really, just if it's fun, we do it. And if it sounds good, we do it. If someone asks us to do it, we do it. And the one thing I will say I always see view things as a success within our business, especially when we do those events, because even with my studios now, even when we open, nothing I do is money driven. Nothing I do is money driven. I never host an event to see how much money I can make. I never open my studios to see how much money I can. It literally, when I say, and I know it's it's maybe a little backwards, but money is like, I have all these other thoughts. Money is down here. I'm personally as a business owner, I want to be able to pay my bills, obviously. I don't want to be in the negative, sure, but I'm not trying to make money. I'm trying to do something that I enjoy, do something to serve my community, do something to help others feel good. I'm doing something to try and make an impact on people's lives and help them feel good. And then with all these different events, I'm trying to do something to create awareness for other small businesses or to get other people that might not have otherwise taken Pilates as a man. Take Pilates and feel good and just introduce them to something new. We don't ever, I never, I guess I don't have skin in the game as far as money goes. So I don't ever see, like if only two people sign up for Bro Lottis. I don't care. Cool. That's awesome for those two people. So I always view everything where someone shows up as a success. I always think it's great.

Dilshad 49:33

It's incredible. So I just want to say that that's one of the things that shocked me about you, actually, because I came to you with a proposal for displaying my jewelry. Because I no longer want to sell it online. I can't stand selling online. So I wanted to do it in person and so many places, you know. It's just standard for you to take commission from every sale for the jewelry. And I came to you and I showed you my jewelry. I was like, look at this, look at this. And you're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, look at this, look at this. And then you're like, okay, yeah, you know, when we have our opening, or like we'll talk about it, blah, blah, blah. And then I say, Okay, like, how much commission are you gonna take? And you're like, what do you mean? You looked at me like I was nuts. I'm looking at you like you're nuts, and I'm like, what is she not understanding here? You wouldn't take commission, and that just blew my mind, and it stunned me. I had nothing to say to you when you said that, and I was like, She's not gonna take commission off of my juvie? It's the weirdest thing, but yeah, and you really do have community first, but I don't understand that. Like, not having any financial anxiety. Like, how do you know you're gonna pay your bills? How do you know like you have a child? How do you know you'll provide for your child? Does that ever occur to you?

Makenzie Sulfaro 50:46

Or right here, you're like, uh, I mean, I don't have money at the very back end. I will say, from day one, our studio has always been successful. Day one, it was more successful than I could have ever imagined. It was, and we have, oh god, I just hired a new accountant too, because I don't even know where our money is. I don't know. I know we're in the green. I feel like we're break even. I know my bills are paid and my instructors are paid and all everything is paid. But I mean, I see, I'm that's how far away from the money side I am, where I'm like, what is my PL? I don't know. I don't know. I know we're not, I know we don't we have extra at the end of the month, so I'm happy with how much it is. I don't know, but yes, I do I do want to make sure that my bills are paid and my son is taken care of, and he is. I don't, I'm never stressed about it. We also, I don't live an extraordinary life. Like we have a very small home in Cottonwood that we bought from someone out of an estate, super cheap. My husband flipped it. All of our cars are used. We don't go on these grandiose trips. I don't say we're frugal because if I want something, you better believe I'm gonna buy it. My son wants for nothing, but we don't live, we don't live above our means. And we just, yeah, money, objects, it's just never, it's never something that I've really care about or think about. Most of my money, honestly, we put back into the studios. So we're currently opening or expanding our gym in Cottonwood right now. So all of our money that we make is going back into the gym, new equipment, bigger space, construction. Same with our Pilates studios in Sedona. Every year we've been, we're going into our sixth year, or we're about to round our sixth year. Every year we've signed a new commercial lease and we've either expanded, changed studio locations, or purchased new equipment. So most of our money goes back into the business, trying to just create a better service and product for everyone. And I feel like if I take care of my community, they're gonna take care of me tenfold. It always comes back to you. And if my intentions are in the right space, if I make sure that I'm not doing things based on money or solely to make more money, then I'm gonna be taking care of just fine. And then some because my intentions are pure. I really just want people to feel good and I want to give back to my community. And like I said, the community gives back and takes care of us.

Dilshad 53:22

And I've watched people take care of you. I've watched your clients take care of you, and it's really sweet. They do in so many different ways. Yeah. Yeah. We're in this moment in time when AI is taking over a lot, like I mentioned in the beginning. And I think that it makes in-person stuff even more valuable, not less. But what do you feel about that? What does that mean for your business?

Makenzie Sulfaro 53:43

I think AI means nothing for our business. I hate AI. It has its has its areas. I I use AI for I use my I use AI for two things in our business to refine my newsletters every month. So I'll like type in like super fast, like this is what I want. This is like I'll type in my little paragraphs because that's the way it's set out. And then I have AI like auto-correct it and unjamble my sentences. Yes. So that I can just copy and paste it. So I use AI for that. And the second thing I use AI for is shout out to my instructors. I love you guys. My emails to my instructors. So if I have a long one, like a studio recap that I try and do monthly with like new things going on, schedule whatever X, Y, and Z, I'll put all those into my AI or my chat GPT. I'll be like, okay, create an email for my instructors. This is what's happening. This is what I need from them. This is what they're doing. Great. Make it sound good, please. And then I send that to them. But those are the only two things I use AI for. As far as in our business, I'm not worried about it. Again, I'm very community people driven, connection driven. I won't, I refuse it. I have so many companies that approach us that are like, we have this great AI app or AI for your phone service, AI for your emails to take time off of your plate. And that works for some people and that's great. And I am happy for you. For me, it feels so like you're so disconnected from your clients. And if you don't talk to them as a person, how are you gonna know what they want or need? How are you gonna know when you're taking away that connection and that relationship? I won't use AI to respond to client emails. I won't use AI for our phone service. Joe does the phone. I do emails, my brother does emails. It really is a small little, it's that's it's the three of us. That's it. And we won't use AI for that. I we have like those automated text messages that go out or and emails, but that's not AI. That's just a trigger in our booking system. That's just an automated text. Hey, you got added to this class type of thing, or you canceled your class. That's it. Otherwise, we are no, I want to pay people. I want to give people my money and I want to help their life and I want to help their family or whatever they need. I want to help pay their bills, I want to help them give them a good life, not someone's tech company. And AI serves its purpose, and I'm sure it helps a lot of people, but it's just not for us. And I don't think it's I the how can how can you replace community and human connection with AI within a relationship business? You can't. So it's whatever, good luck.

Dilshad 56:28

So, what are you building towards next then, McKenzie?

Makenzie Sulfaro 56:31

What's next for you now? We are when we're expanding our gym in Cottonwood. So excited. We're poking right through the wall and we're adding in asana, red light therapy, new equipment, all of that fun stuff that's in our Cottonwood location. And then I am, I've been it's been what five years now, four years now, where we have wanted so bad to get our online, on-demand platform going and rolling so that people we live in a snowbird community, all three of our studios, snowbird. Okay, so we have clients that are here for the winter and then they go usually to Florida for the summer or Canada. We have a lot of Canadians, Midwest people. Um, and they want to continue taking classes with us. So me and Joe are working on creating our on-demand platform finally. That is our goal for 2026 is getting pre-recorded workouts to be on online so that our clients can do those when they're not with us.

Dilshad 57:35

Will they be based in Pilates or strength training or all of it?

Makenzie Sulfaro 57:38

All of it. Don't you worry, all of it, Dilsha. Yeah. So it will be Joe will be doing strength training. Strength training hit will be have bar classes, and then we will also have Nat Pilates and Reformer Pilates. So I have a lot of clients who actually in their snowboard location when they're not here with us in the summer, they just bought they buy reformers and they just want to continue taking classes with us digitally on their home reformers. So that's we're trying to get some reformer classes up for them.

Dilshad 58:10

That is so cool. I'm so glad people get to see and have the Mackenzie and Joe experience, even though they're not anywhere near here. Exactly. We're gonna haunt you forever. We will follow you. That's incredible. I had no idea you were doing that. So now you're getting into like the online world just a little bit. Yes.

Makenzie Sulfaro 58:31

Yeah, trying to get online, but really not again for our local community for those that see us half of the year and want to continue us with us for the other half. Trying to, they asked many years ago, and now we're finally it is a it is a very top priority for us for 2026.

Dilshad 58:48

Can you riff on finding a partner and how you found Joe? Because I think that the both of you are just so incredibly mutually perfect for each other in so many ways, and you both are building a business together as partners, and he does all the renovations and everything. He has real life skills to contribute to a dream that you have, and vice versa, I'm sure. Just riff on that. Whatever you want to say about partnership, romantic partnership.

Makenzie Sulfaro 59:19

So I'm twice divorced, I'm a two-time divorce. I know. Surprise! I got married when I was 18. Oh, I went to the little white chapel, did the drive-thru wedding in Vegas, and got married when I was 18. And then thank God my dad was an attorney and a divorce lawyer. So he got me a divorce a few months later. I only told my parents because it was tax season and they couldn't claim me on their taxes anymore. I was yeah, my god. I was like, sorry, you guys, you can't claim me. Anyway, so divorced and then remarried the same guy when he joined the military. Awful experience. Awful experience. It was a uh DV experience, and I was fortunate to come out stronger on the other side, but I think that kind of taught me a lot. I all, you know, I see a trial marriage as a good thing because then it really sets you up for your forever marriage and it really teaches you what you want and don't want. But when I met Joe, we actually met online. I was living in Phoenix, he was living in Cornville, which is a small little subset of Sedona or Cottonwood or whatever, super small little town. I was like, wow, I grew up in that area. You're way too attractive to like live there. Like you have all your and a whole head of hair. I was like, what is this? I messaged him, yeah, and I was like, Do you really live in Cornville? And he's like, Yeah, whatever. He's from Michigan. He was a park ranger at Slide Rock. And so we went on a few dates, and he was so nice. And I was still so young, fresh out of a divorce or out of a marriage. And I was like, Wow, you're boring. So I ghosted him. And then I dated someone else for two years, and it was a very awful. My mom actually set me up with him. It was her personal trainer. Oh, it was awful. It was a wild two years, but I think, and then I reconnected with Joe, ghosted him this whole thing, and it took a long time for me to sit in the discomfort of Joe because to me, he was boring, he was so attractive, he was so nice. He liked literally everything that I wrote down when I was in high school with a former mentor of mine. She wrote had me write down what are my negotiables and non-negotiables, and then like your wish list. He had everything on my non-negotiables and my wish list, everything. But he was boring. He was boring. He went to bed at eight o'clock. He was very rigid with his workout and his meal prep. Oh God. He has stayed up with me once past midnight. And that was when we were dating. And that was one time, never since then. Um, but I think I just had to learn that what I thought I wanted or what I always knew wasn't what was best for me as a human, as a compatible partner. And I had to sit there, slow myself down, and look more at what I wanted my future to look like and think about that, and then look at what kind of partner I needed to have that type of future. And my future was never business related ever. I never thought this future would be for me business-wise, but I always knew I wanted a strong father figure for my child. I wanted someone that could communicate with me. And he actually taught me how to communicate. He had to sit me down and say, McKenzie, we don't behave this way. This is how we talk to each other. And I thought, oh, okay, thank you. And I wanted just someone that complimented me and played off of my weaknesses with his strengths, and vice versa. We very much balance each other out. And then going back to him after I ghosted him, I had to kind of put my tail in between my legs. And my same friend who told me McKenzie, drop out of school and start this business was the same friend who said, McKenzie, give Joe a try. What a good friend. Carrie, I love you. She literally, the two most important things in my life, other than my son, my husband, and my business. Carrie has been like, McKenzie, just go for it, just give it a try. And what does she always say? You can always do something for X amount of time, whatever that time is. So just give it a month and then whatever, go from there. But again, just sitting in my discomfort with the relationship and thinking about what I want in my future, what I want in a partner, and realizing that what I thought I wanted, what I'm attracted to inherently is not what's best for me. It's not what's going to compliment me, and it's not going to get me where I want to go. And my relationship with Joe wasn't full of like passion and desire and those things that you kind of crave where you're like, oh, what all my other relationships were that gave me those high highs and low lows. Me and Joe, I've always think we've been on upward trajectory, but nothing has been a high high. And I've never, when I say I've never had a low, low with, I don't even think I've had a I've had like challenges, but I don't I've never had a low with him, which is in my personal life unheard of to not have those ebbs and flows. Like it's just been like a steady, it's been an upward, but like the smallest trajectory upward. So it's like you you meet someone and you don't have that spark or that connection that what you're used to, and you're like, wow, this isn't right. This isn't right. The first time we kissed, it wasn't a good kiss. And I was like, nope. And my girlfriend was like, girl, just let it, just give it a try. And then everything was amazing after. But it's just always knowing it's kind of like thinking with your head sometimes, and not necessarily always like those crazy emotions. And honestly, it worked out for me. And I would tell everyone, like, what you think you want and what you normally go for. Maybe look at the opposite if it's not working out. Yeah. Oh, now I'm obsessed with him. I just think he is everything, and I brag on him. So I'm like when I say I'm obsessed with my husband, I'm obsessed, and he's just so fucking hot. I can't, I'm obsessed with him. And so I am. I say Joe is my unicorn. He is a unicorn of a man, but there are more of them out there. They are.

Dilshad 1:05:46

Oh, Mackenzie, you hit on a sore spot with that statement.

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:05:50

They're out there. They really, yeah, they really, really are. And I also know that, and I tell him if we would have dated when we first met. He would not have liked the person I was. And he would not have stayed. He would, I didn't like the person that I was. I was doing drugs. I was crazy. I was drinking. I was partying. I was doing all of that stuff. And that's not the human he is. And that's not the human I wanted to be. So I know, like, not everyone's time is right. So everything happens for a reason. I strongly believe in everything happens for a reason. And it's just the timing isn't there. And again, it wasn't one of the things that I had to force. I didn't ever force anything with him. It just kind of happened. It happened. And if I, if we were to date when I first met him, I would have had to force it. We also lived almost two hours away. We didn't have the same time off as each other either. But it just kind of still, like he put the effort in, I put the effort in, and it worked. And it was easy. It was easy. Our relationship has been easy. The whole relationship has been easy. Obviously, there's their challenges that you have with marriage and business and children and whatever. But for the most part, it's been easy. And when I say really, Dilsha, there, your person is out there. They are out there. And they are the unicorns out there. And there is someone that you are going to find that's going to look at you and just think that you are magic and you are the world. And look past, like he has never made me feel small, ugly, dumb, like any of those, like anything negative about myself. He has only built me up with my confidence, with my personality, and places where people tell me that I need a shrink. He's only been like, that's why I love you. That's why you're amazing. And I'm also not the person he thought he would end up with. My personality. He wanted someone like him. Boring. But it really is. It's just waiting. It's just waiting. The person is out there, and maybe the time isn't right for just don't force it. It needs to be easy. But the the unicorns are there. There are more Joes in the world.

Dilshad 1:08:02

I think all women need to hear that. I can see so many of them rolling their eyes. I'm trying not to roll my eyes, but at the same time, I'm like, thank you so much for just saying that. Because we hear the opposite. We've seen evidence of the opposite. So we need someone who has what we all want to tell us this.

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:08:22

And I will say, do not settle. Do not there. And I've settled before. I was not happy.

Dilshad 1:08:29

Yeah, you said you said DV for those who don't know, it's domestic violence. Like that's not easy to go through. And yeah, you went from that to Joe.

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:08:40

Yeah, I went from something that I thought I deserved to something that I truly deserve because I was open and receptive to hearing what Joe had to say about my communication styles. Yeah, and things that I needed to work on were easy to hear. And it's not easy. So I did the hard work too. Like it was hard. It was uncomfortable when we were dating, trying to be a better partner for him and trying to learn and communicate and change who I was, not change who I was, but improve and see that I'm not the perfect princess that I thought I was, and that I do have flaws as a human, but just always working and growing and evolving and trying to better yourself and better your partner and knowing that there is someone out there that is just really they're gonna think the world of you and they are going to hold you to a higher standard and want to make you want to be better. I don't know what is too much on this podcast, but I remember I went to a party with Joe. It was my friend's party, birthday party. Wow, everyone's really gonna get to know me now. But like I said, I did drugs before and I took Joe to this birthday party and it was I was offered cocaine and I am not opposed to a little booger sugar, okay? And I said no, because I know Joe doesn't, he's never done drugs, he's never even smoked weed before. And I know that he doesn't want to be with someone that's doing cocaine in the bathroom at a party in their well, how old was I, mid-20s? You know what I mean? Like that's not something that he wants or that he finds attractive. Not that, but if I would have done it, he wouldn't have like said any. He would have been like, well, okay, that's a choice you made. And he wouldn't have shamed me for it, but he'd be like, that's a choice you made. You live with the consequences type of thing. But I wanted to be better for him because he's he holds himself to a higher standard and he's holding me to that same standard of where he's not gonna shame me and make me feel bad, but he's gonna like make it so I have to self-reflect. Like, why am I, I don't know, 26, 27 doing cocaine in the bathroom on a fucking Tuesday.

Dilshad 1:10:53

Are you saying that we need a separate episode with you and Joe talking about your relationship? Because that's what I'm hearing for love to.

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:11:01

I would love, and Joe has like the best voice.

Dilshad 1:11:04

He does have a podcast voice.

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:11:06

He does, he has a voice for radio and a face for GQ. Fucking unicorn, okay.

Dilshad 1:11:13

I don't know how hard he's gonna blush when he hears this episode.

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:11:17

Honestly, he hears this all the time from me. And so he's probably oh yeah. I mean, I'm not I'm not shy about bragging on him. I brag on him at the studio at work to his face, and but he's like, honestly, okay, I have to say, every morning for the I would say there's a time when he doesn't do it. I call him out on social media and he doesn't even have social media, which I think is amazing. But every morning that I get ready for work, I'm either getting ready or I'm coming out of the bedroom to leave. He looks at me and he's like, damn, like, god damn. And he means it. Like it's not like it's not like a blowing smoke up my ass. Like he and he has and I've gone through my own weight struggles where I was 266 pounds and postpartum when I was postpartum, right? Had all this weight, had all this, I had pre-clampsia, so I had all this liquid retention. And he just thought I was just still everything. Like he's like, Oh yeah, your boobs were so huge, it was amazing. Like your butt, it was amazing. Like he's only just seen me as beautiful, but he tells me too. So it's like never, and so when he doesn't make a comment when I leave for work, that I'm like, wow, Joe, wow.

Dilshad 1:12:30

I'm glad we went on this tangent. I was hesitating because I'm like, that's not what this episode is about, but this is what life is about, right? So thank you so much for being so honest, Mackenzie. That was beautiful. Where can people find you?

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:12:43

You can find our website, www.sultivate.com. Sultivate also. So we used to be called the studio. We rebranded to Sultivate. Yeah, so we used to be the studio, and it was just the studio period, like easy peasy. As we grew, we realized, oh, we're gonna run into trademark infringements. So we had to change. So sultivate is a play on words. Sultivate means creating health and wellness from the inside out. So it's a play on two words, soul and cultivate, smushed together. And we spell it S-U-L because our last name is Sulfaro. S-U-L. Oh my god.

Dilshad 1:13:25

And I'll put the link in the description. That's such a and is this where the new classes will be hosted too on saltivate.com?

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:13:32

Yes. Our on-demand classes will be on soltivate.com. We also have Facebook, Sultivate, Instagram at Sultivate. And then our Instagram is very much just Sultivate, like our studio. If you ever want to hear my ramblings, it's McKenzie.pilates. Yes. On Instagram.

Dilshad 1:13:51

Yes, I'll link all of that. Oh my God. Thank you so much, McKenzie. Any last words before we end?

Makenzie Sulfaro 1:13:57

Just for anyone out there opening a business or not even opening a business, just doing something new, doing something new that you've always wanted to do. Just fucking do it. Just caution to the wind, just do it. And always like I think about what's the worst thing that's gonna happen. What is the worst thing that's gonna happen? You fail. Are you gonna die? No, you fail. And then what? And then you pivot or you try again or you do something new. There's you what literally always think what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? You fail, and then you move on. And that's it. So just be bold. Just do it. We have one life right now. Just do it. Just fucking do it.

Dilshad 1:14:37

Thank you so much, Mackenzie. Yeah, we loved having you on this show today. Thanks for having me. So, my beautiful lovelies, I don't know about you, but that's probably one of my favorite episodes on this podcast to date. Can we take a moment to appreciate and really feel some gratitude for how honest and upfront and generous Mackenzie was with her time and her wisdom and her story? It's just beautiful. There are not a lot of people on this planet that do those things. I would know, because I interview people all the time. And I just think it's beautiful that someone can show up this way. If you'd like to listen to a parallel episode that I think is just a perfect fit for this one, it would be episode 14, which is uh Rose Mysticism Part 1, practicing heaven on Earth. It's an extension of this idea of building your heaven on earth just a little bit at a time. I'll also link a few other episodes, actually, now that I think about it, in the description that are an extension of the different themes we discussed today. And so until next time, lovelies, may your dignity come alive in the physical spaces you build and the physical spaces you join. Much love to you. Bye.